Preserves: The Manitoba Food HIstory PODCAST

Having had a mobile oral history research vehicle was just one of the connections we had with the presenters. The block party event really showcased what our respective projects have tried to do, by doing oral histories outside the studio with communities in their locations, having public exhibitions and events that invite communities to come together, and of course bringing food into the mix.

KENT DAVIES: Yes, there was ice cream and a food truck at the block party. Sadly, I was so busy interviewing and talking with people about our project, I never got the chance to grab some grub.

JANIS THIESSEN: Sorry, Kent! Yes, we met many amazing people at the block party that were interested in sharing food memories. And it’s one of the reasons why our project and food history in general are so valuable for gathering stories and histories.

KENT DAVIES: Let’s start with a food memory from Elizabeth Agnew, professor of religious studies and Director of Women's and Gender Studies at Ball State University. While she grew up in New Jersey, her maternal grandparents were from Canada and she would come up to visit them in Canada in the summertime. And interestingly enough, her food memory includes an ingredient that we are very familiar with here in Manitoba.

ELIZABETH AGNEW: So, the memorable food that came to mind right away was rhubarb pie. And it’s memorable for me because of my maternal grandmother. My maternal grandmother was the youngest child in a large family that were homesteaders on the plains in Saskatchewan. And in her life, she became a very fine cook out of resourcefulness. Our family also had ties to Ontario. And so, my grandparents built a very simple summer cottage on Scott Island on the Rideau waterway. There was a whole area where there was wild rhubarb growing. So, it was very exciting during the summer as kids. We would go out to the old Brown farm which now is no more—it was kind of dilapidated—and we would pick wild rhubarb. And there were also other berries out there, black berries and so on, but it was the rhubarb that I would remember, and we would bring it back for my Grandmother to make into a pie. And I learned the art of pie making from my mother who was the eldest daughter of my grandmother, and I was always so amazed at the easy at which my grandmother made pies. There would often—as I was growing up there would be a whole other set of family with my cousins and aunts and uncles and they’re off—fifteen or seventeen of us, and she would easily [make] two or three pies and we always had dessert every night. But one of the pies was rhubarb pie and I still—I always think of her when I make pies. She always made her own crust. She, you know again, she probably worked with me, but my mom did too, on putting the top layer on, crimping it so it looked really beautiful. So that was special. And I also have a very sweet memory of my grandfather, Grandpa Ted. So, this was Granny Kate and Grampa Ted because he used to say with the kind of flippancy—If he felt something was easy, he’d say, “Oh, that is as easy as making a pie.” Or maybe it was an apple pie. And she always challenged him. [laughs] It was like, “Okay, let’s see you make a pie.” He was a trained physicist, he was a very talented man, he had a doctorate from Cambridge University in England, but he was not a pie maker and I don’t think he ever made a pie. So that pie in particular is very special for me.

KENT DAVIES: That’s great, I love rhubarb pie, but I’ve got to have it with ice cream: too tart. I’ll admit I’ve only made one pie and it wasn’t the best but it almost held together. Have you ever made a pie Janis?

JANIS THIESSEN: Yes, my brother-in-law, who used to be a baker with the Canadian Grain Commission, gave me his recipe for saskatoon pie, which is my favourite. I usually buy pre-made pastry, which is what he recommends, though I’ve occasionally made pie dough from scratch. The pre-made pastry was better than my attempts, to be honest.

KENT DAVIES: Fair enough, Next up, we’ll hear from Ve’Amber Miller-Dye, a public historian working as the Digital Content and Outreach Coordinator at Johns Hopkins University. Originally from Chicago, Miller tells us a story that we’ve heard from time to time during the course of our project: how favourite foods get passed down from generation to generation, and how potlucks are often the best place to showcase that favourite family dish.

VE’AMBER MILLER-DYE: I’m actually from the Chicago area. I grew up in the south suburbs of Chicago. Before moving here, I was living in Chicago in this neighbourhood called Pullman. So, the first thing that comes to mind for me is baked macaroni and cheese. I have a lot of kind of like memories especially around this time of year with fall and stuff. I’m thinking about like Thanksgiving already. And being able to go home and have food and so, baked mac and cheese is one of my favourite dishes to eat around Thanksgiving and Christmas time and things like that. And it also was I think one of the first dishes I learned to cook too with my family for like big family gatherings and it also has a special place in my heart because the first year I was away for college we had a potluck for the Black student organization on campus and that was the dish I decided to pick and I remember calling home an being super nervous about like, “what are the ingredients?” Like I had made it before but I called my mom and I was like, “do you use this cheese or that cheese?” It was like what am I using as like for eggs and milk and all this other stuff? And so— And then when people tasted it, a lot of people came up to me or like, “wow, this tastes like home. Thank you so much.” And I was like, “Oh!” [excitement] It meant a lot to me. Both sides of my family, like on my grandparents generation, they all came from the south, from Alabama to the Chicago area. So I think it’s more of like our southern roots connection type thing than our Chicago like family thing but it’s specifically like baked mac and cheese. Right? Not just like Kraft mac and cheese. It has to be— [laugh] It’s a very specific style.

KENT DAVIES: That story makes me so hungry. I love baked mac and cheese and if it’s a multi-generational recipe, it’s got to be something special.

JANIS THIESSEN: For sure, next we’ll hear from Washington College Student, Shannon Salandy, who is an oral history research coordinator for the Chesapeake Heartland project. Part of the project includes the African American Humanities Truck, which does oral histories, digitization projects and public history exhibits in communities in and around Kent County, Maryland. Washington College’s Patrick Nugent, and community historians Airlee Ringgold Johnson and Carolyn Brooks were part of the Oral History Association panel with us. And it was lovely to meet all of them and learn about their work and, of course, see the African American Humanities Truck in action

KENT DAVIES: Salandy gave us a tour of one of their truck’s exhibits: the Hip Hop Time Capsule in which students and young recording artists remix archival materials, integrating oral histories and archival photos into mixed media exhibits featuring poems, songs, and album covers.

JANIS THIESSEN: Salandy was born and raised in Trinidad and Tobago, and now resides in Baltimore. For her food memory, she talks to us about her favourite Trinidadian dish.

SHANNON SALANDY: So, I was born and raised in Trinidad and Tobago and one of our most staple foods, pholourie is a dough that is fried. It’s in a ball like this and it’s made of ground up chickpeas is what the dough is made of. And so that is eaten with chana which is chickpeas and we just make it into a little sauce with some curcuma sauce and that’s how we eat the dish. So, that’s more of a snack time food. It’s not really a full meal or anything. But it’s more like a snacky food. You find it you know downtown for carnival or something like that. It’s like a finger food on the side, on the street. We are sort of a melting pot. All of the different immigrants and colonisers that came and dropped off people there they’re from different parts of the world. So like Syria, we had French there, Chinese, Black, North Africans, like you know, you name it like everyone is there as well as the East Indians. And so that meal or that dish is a result of the East Indian immigrants that you know came in to the country. So, that’s one of— We don’t even have a national dish for that reason. Because we have so many different cultures and backgrounds that we don’t feel like it would be fair to have a national dish. But it’s [pholourie] something that’s popular especially at Christmas time. At my mom’s job, she worked at home and so the person who would cook whatever food they were eating for Christmas time which usually involved pholourie. They would always send extra home for me because I love pholourie. That was one of my favourite dishes when I was there, that I would like to eat. And so, I would say that would be my earliest memory. Yeah. So, I would say, I haven’t always had it with the sauce, the dipping sauce that I describe because I was—I’m a little picky. So, you know I did— Once I did get into the sauce though I realized what I was missing and I haven’t gone back since. It smells like somebody is frying something like it’s some good fried chicken without the chicken smell. You know, but it’s like a good fried dish you go, “Mmmm, what is that?” And then you might sense that something might be tickling your nose hairs. And it turns out to be some of the pepper that’s in the dip that they just ground up. You know, with the Chadon Beni and the pepper and everything else. And then sometimes it can even get to your eyes because you know that garlic-onion mix, I don’t know what they be putting in it in Trinidad but it’s stronger than anything I’ve ever smelled in my life. And so, once you smell that you might not have even had it, it might have been your first time, you might not even know what it’s called, you might not know, ‘what is this?’ tickling your nose buds like this but you might say, “I want to try it,” because it smells so good.